1/4 throttle upgrade now what do i do to the carby

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bikeboy

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Need someone who knows what they are talking about who can give me advice!
I have upgraded my 1/2 turn throttle to a 1/4 turn and the bike some times bogs if I give it too much!
i suppose I should change the jet in the carby or maybe lift the needle up one notch. Correct me if I'm wrong but more throttle means more fuel needed and hence more air as well. Do i go one size jet up or will it be enough to move the needle clip down a notch?
Am I on the right track? bike is a pit pro xr 140 30mm Mikuni.
Any advice is good.......:D
 
Changing the throttle to a quick action isnt what is causing the problems. The carby tune hasnt changed.

You need to ask the following questions.

Is it stalling during your regular riding? Or is it only doing it when you wack the throttle open from Idle to see how fast you can do it with your new throttle?

A lot of these carbys are not tuned well to start with and you probably need to give it a tune to get peak performance out of the bike (you would have needed this before you changed the throttle).

To sort the problem (if it is a real one) you need to check the main jet first then you need to adjust the needle clip. Then when both these are spot on (the flat spot will still be there) you adjust the idol mixture screw.
 
Thanks cass38a....The bike still goes good and went ok before i put the throttle on, it just seems to need a little more time to get going if i give it a handfull.
Oh i forgot to tell you.... i give it lots of handfulls and it doesnt seem to respond as with the 1/2 turn throttle. Sort of like a small pause of which i am managing to overcome with a slight slipping of the clutch to keep the bike on full tap. its gotta be a jetting or air fuel mix mynute tweeking issue. i will get some jets and try them, but first i will try the needle position. thanks for the imput....Anyone else got tips????????
 
It's simply the rider twisting the throttle quicker than the engine can respond ..... he's now opening it up twice as fast as he did before with the 1/2 turn throttle ..... I've said it stacks of times before ....... When you whack the throttle open too quickly you cause a sudden vacuum and air velocity drop ..... which means you also cop a sudden fuel delivery drop (aka BOGGGG !!!!!)

Since carbs rely totally on vacuum to maintain air velocity and suction on the jets ...... you can't tune it out either ... What you have to do is learn to open the throttle in 2 stages ... slow initially to get the motor starting to rev .... then fast once the revs are at the point where the engine can hack it ..... You have to re learn how much throttle your engine can tolerate from a certain rpm in a certain gear ..... After a while you'll get the knack of it with the quick turn throttle .......

I've actually seen and heard dick brains making a CRF250 bog , fart , cough and splutter like a sick dog ..... then after a while they learnt how to throttle it properly ..... then it revved crisp and clean like it was supposed to go ...
 
yes, even my XR650 got a slight bog if you really whack the throttle hard, Since I learnt to ride on 2-strokes this was an adjustment I had to learn, Instead of whipping the throttle wide open like on a small-bore 2-stroker I simply learnt to roll on the throttle.
 
You've got it spot on bro' ^^^^^ ......... I couldn't have said it better myself ...... a good port job helps make motors heaps more responsive :D
 
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That is what I was trying to say as well. You may be able to improve your performance with a good tune, my bike used to bog with a standard throttle and I managed to tune it out. I havent put a 1/4 turn on as I think they are harder to ride.
 
If you're a throttle jockey and whack the throttle on and off quickly ...... the ONLY solution is to go to a smaller carb which maintains vacuum and velocity better ........

Check out what sized carb 65 to 70 HP Jawa 500 cc speedway solo racing engines run ... a 34 mm Delorto !!!!!!!!!!!! And they run that sized carb because they can't afford to have the engine bog , hesitate , cough or sputter when they pitch it sideways into turns at over 160 kph then feather the throttle to keep control of the bike ..... The rear wheel MUST be kept spinning all the time or the rear tyre bites , the bike high sides and throws the rider off ...... A big carb simply won't work with a quick turn throttle unless the rider slows his right hand down ..... The throttles are designed mainly so that you don't have to rotate your wrist so far to get to full throttle to make it easier to hang on and concentrate on controlling and steering the bike under max power ....

Description of JAWA Engine Type 884 and 888

Also ... check out the main jet run with METHANOL on a 500 (a # 230) ......... I read on Planet Minis where one guy was advising people to run a # 240 main in a Mikuni VM-26 on a YX 150 bored to 165 ....... and they call themselves tuning "experts" :p

VM26 snap crackle bog at 3/4 to full throttle - Planet Minis

Errrr ..... and when you go up above sea level ..... you usually go down in jet size .....

Rocky Mountain ATV Club

Rocky Mountain ATV Club
 
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Or is it only doing it when you wack the throttle open from Idle to see how fast you can do it with your new throttle?

What is this?

Not a real good explanation but I was expecting him to come back and say it only happens when he wacks it open real fast and not during regular riding.

His next post gave everyone the facts which confirmed that the problem was rider related not carby related. No BS in my view
 
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I have upgraded my 1/2 turn throttle to a 1/4 turn and the bike some times bogs if I give it too much!

What size engine is it?

A summary of some things already mentioned (mostly by Cactus and Mack in older threads) on this topic which might help:
Richer jetting. Snap to wide open to set the main. Snap to 3/4 for the needle.
Inlet port: tidy from valve to carb, matched diams, long.
Carb size: Maybe try an OKO24 (if you gave a spare hundred bucks).

Things I've done which might also be helping me (pretty snappy torque) are: Fuelstar TM-VC unit in the tank + I generally use Mobil 8000 or BP premium fuel. + 32mm exhaust pipe.
 
Even race car engines are sensitive to throttle timing .... the more worked the engine is .... the worse it gets ...... I know about it because I raced 4 stroke bikes / cars and tried every different sized carb ....

You can actually work out what sized carb you need using a mathematical formula ...... check out Calculating Flow (CFM) / Sizing - on this link :

Olds FAQ -- Carburetors

Big carbs on motorcycles act the same as a 2 barrel or larger carb on a car .... you can even bog a worked Holden 6 with 1 3/4 triple SU's if it's not in the right gear at the right revs when you floor the throttle ....... my race engine had to be above 3500 rpm before you could tromp the throttle and it was properly tuned .........

This info is from a link on modded rotary engines :

Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About Rotary Carburetion - Vintage Rotaries

[As with all big 2 barrel carbs, you cannot open the throttle quickly at low engine speeds. The minimum engine speed at which a big 2 barrel will not bog varies depending on the size of the venturies, but usually you cannot floor them below 3500 rpm without the engine stumbling. This is usually a rude shock to someone new to a 2 barrel, but that is just the laws of physics. You can overcome the bog by learning how quickly you can open the throttle and when you can give it full throttle.]


The Float Bowl Level being too low can be a cause of bogging if it starts happening on a previously spot on running carb that is being throttled the same as before ......

[The float bowl level is critical in getting the carb to run right. As stated above, during ¼ throttle and above operating conditions, the venturi sucks the fuel out of the float bowl. If the fuel level in the float bowl is too high, fuel will run out of the float bowl, through the venturi and down in the engine all the time, flooding out the engine. This is exactly what happens when your needle and seat go bad, making the float bowl level rise above the booster venturi and flood out the engine. Besides flooding out an engine, an improper float bowl level will show up when the carb is making the transition from the idle circuit to the transition circuit to the main run circuit. Since the venturi is sucking fuel up out of the float bowl, if the float level is too low, then the venturi must suck harder since it has to raise the fuel higher up before it starts flowing out of the venturi. If the venturi has to suck harder, then it will not reach that higher suction until you reach higher air velocity through the venturi, which means that the main run circuit won't start flowing fuel until higher rpm / throttle more open conditions. A too low float bowl fuel level is sometimes the cause of a stumble or bog or hesitation or flat spot. Too high of a float bowl level may make the main run circuit start adding fuel too soon, before the engine is flowing enough air to need that much fuel. This will cause too rich of a mixture during the transition periods. If your carb was running right and you suddenly develop a carb problem like these, then check the float bowl level. Always run the float bowl level that is recommended by the manufacturer of the carb, or the level recommended by the person who put together the complete carb/intake manifold kit that you are running.]
 
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check this reply out suckers

What is this?

Not a real good explanation but I was expecting him to come back and say it only happens when he wacks it open real fast and not during regular riding.

His next post gave everyone the facts which confirmed that the problem was rider related not carby related.

Yep I admit it I'm a ex 2banger rider who has played around with some yehaa rip yur arms outta yur socketts 2stroke rockets and so i am a clutch riding full throttle loony. I used to race a yz 250 that was tuned and ported with a Lectron powerjet carb running av gas. The guys in my class hated me coz i pelted them in their heads with rocks from holeshotting. Enuf bragging and well things are better now with the new throttle and it is as some one said a matter of throttle control. Thanks for the tips guys and if any one can explain to me what (No BS in my view) means then i might just understand!!!lol
You guys who wrote all the stuff about carbys etc are a credit to yourselves for being so well educated....Good stufff I love that stuff.
Go hard then go home......the old man!:D
 
What size engine is it?

A summary of some things already mentioned (mostly by Cactus and Mack in older threads) on this topic which might help:
Richer jetting. Snap to wide open to set the main. Snap to 3/4 for the needle.
Inlet port: tidy from valve to carb, matched diams, long.
Carb size: Maybe try an OKO24 (if you gave a spare hundred bucks).

Things I've done which might also be helping me (pretty snappy torque) are: Fuelstar TM-VC unit in the tank + I generally use Mobil 8000 or BP premium fuel. + 32mm exhaust pipe.

Nice bike numroe, wouldnt mind one myself. Me pitty pro xr 140. Whats that stuff you put in your tank and where do you get it from, what ratio yudder yudder....What about an oko copy from ebay? would that do the trick and would it need bigger jetting for the engine size? I think the pit pro xr's have all got 32mm exhaust. Is that ID or OD tube size?
 
Nice bike numroe, wouldnt mind one myself. Me pitty pro xr 140. Whats that stuff you put in your tank and where do you get it from, what ratio yudder yudder....What about an oko copy from ebay? would that do the trick and would it need bigger jetting for the engine size? I think the pit pro xr's have all got 32mm exhaust. Is that ID or OD tube size?
In the tank is just premium petrol and a little TM-VC fuel conditioner from fuelstar. I'd recommend one (no commission unfortunately). Really good in terms of cleaner burn at lower RPM with jetting on the rich side. There is no "ratio" to consider. The vibration of your engine causes the tin balls to rattle around inside the device releasing micro tin particles into your fuel. Ultra tiny, but they make a difference. The same gizmo also works well in my 450F (I took it out to verify), and my daughter's 70cc ducar mini runs like a treat with one too. But it does not eliminate the need to adjust your valve clearances, jet correctly and so on.

The OKO is a copy of a Keihin. There is no OKO "copy" that I'm aware off. Reading this site, it appears that OKO have some quality control issues, so buyer beware. I think I got lucky with my OKO26.

32mm inside versus outside diam. I am not sure. But the SS wall is only about 0.5mm so who's counting? ;)
 
No BS in my view = no Bull Shit.

Somehow Worm thought I was lying in my first 2 posts in this thread. He also referred to me as a tool but he will keep.
 
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Take it with a grain of salt Cass ..... We all know ... and YOU know that you contribute extremely helpful info to the site ..... there are some people who like to nit pick little discrepancies in what people say .... rather than focusing on contributing useful info themselves .....

What those people don't seem to realise it that they're not the only ones the info is posted for ..... the info is for ANYONE who visits the site to read ......

What we say is mostly just common sense opinions with a lot of fact thrown in ... I for one search for back up links to verify what I'm saying is sound , knowing quite well that someone is bound to argue or disagree with what I say .... the original info comes straight out of my head though .....

I've learnt that it's best to have back up ammo kept up my sleeve to checkmate the hecklers .... It's great to pull out the trump card near the end of an argument :p

Usually if I don't already have the back up info ....... it only takes a few seconds to find it ......
 
yes, because you have a 1/4 turn throttle, you are opening it up twice as fast. Which aparantly is more than your bike can handle. Just like when you rev ur bike hard and fast it backfires, big change in fuel and air flow
 

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