Detonator
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Tony B said:
People say Lifans are one of the better engines but there's nothing wrong with Ducars in my opinion...
I've done around 400Km of fairly hard riding with my Ducar so far and it runs great, it doesn't blow a whisper of smoke, sounds good, and always starts first kick.... I'm about 85Kg and my property is pretty steep so the engine has had a fair flogging....
I've got no complaints.
FLICK said:
Yeah I'm sure there are plenty of guys getting a good run out of their Ducar. The thing is, sellers use the Lifan as a major selling point....in this case, falsely. At very least I'd say (based on the engine warranty) "new Lifan engine boys or my money back". They probably won't have Lifans and will have to refund. Don't give up on the Chinese pitbikes just yet Tony....keep posted and we'll have your young fella grinnin' from ear to ear in no time. I've got a 10 year old lad, and I bought the wrong one first up too....so I know all about it. The real question is, when are ya gonna get one for yourself.
Thanks Flick, I don't know much about these Lifans and Ducars etc, I've only ever ridden maico and Yamaha, so your comments are helping, anyone else who has flogged them and got some life outa them? how about the statement of it being fitted with a Mikuni, I recon thats nonsense as well? I can't believe that when the choke is on the fuel gushes out of the carb overflo ( sales guy reconned that some fuel might leak when choke was on) but gushing or pouring is not leaking in my book of explanations. it also drips from the carb overflo when the choke is off. Is this phenomenon well known? surely Mikuni would not design something like that.. also no pet cock to stop it, so now I got the fuel can under the overflow.
Sounds like your carb has a bit of a problem....
My carb only overflows a bit if I put the bike on it's sidestand on a slope... my fuel tap is tucked up under the middle of the tank between the frame rails so I have to be carefull not to burn myself on the exhaust trying to turn it off....
My carb only overflows a bit if I put the bike on it's sidestand on a slope... my fuel tap is tucked up under the middle of the tank between the frame rails so I have to be carefull not to burn myself on the exhaust trying to turn it off....
The Ducar is getting flogged all over the country. There must be many hundreds out there now. You can be sure they're not getting an easy life. The jury is still out for them as far as I'm concerned. They run a big valve head and that is a good thing. I'm seeking a dead one if anyone has one they want to part with, so I can pull it right down and check out the entire build quality and part specs.
If the carby has Mikuni Corporation stamped on the top threaded cap, and 'Mikuni' and 'Japan' stamped on the side of the barrel, then it would be manufactured by Mikuni. If so, to the best of my knowledege they are a VM series carby, but you won't find that exact model on the US website.(which is first hit on google and as it is not there, leads people to think they are a fake).
Mikuni has various manufacturing arrangements, and I suspect these models are manufactured in Mikuni Corporation's Chinese plant specifically for the Asian small engine market. They're probably not quite up to scratch with other Carby's Mikuni produces.
Having said all that, your seller was false advertising the engine, so why no the carby too....another selling point.
It does sound like you've got another problem either way.
cranga
Well-Known Member
Hi Tony_b, Ive got the same fuel system as your bike (agb-29) and ive not had an issue with leakage appart from a split hose. There is no petcock with this tank, just a plastic attatchment for the fuel line, could the needle and seat be jammed in the carby? It sounds like your one of the unlucky ones out there, as many people have been flogging ducars around the world in these bikes, many still without an issue as exaggerated on some forums....
But im still flogging my ducar and will not be disapointed when it dies, just cant wait to pull it apart and play (or give it to mack)! Prob choose a lifan as the next powerplant for my bike.
Most of the larger sellers have cleaned up their act now, it was a different story 2 years ago! but just keep pushing and you should get an exchange unit.
Cheers
But im still flogging my ducar and will not be disapointed when it dies, just cant wait to pull it apart and play (or give it to mack)! Prob choose a lifan as the next powerplant for my bike.
Most of the larger sellers have cleaned up their act now, it was a different story 2 years ago! but just keep pushing and you should get an exchange unit.
Cheers
Max99 said:
What are you basing that assumption on? The machine work is the same quality as any Mikuni I have seen. The jets are same. The metals seem the same quality...
Tony B this overflowing problem is common for many of these carbs. The problem is your float is not quite cutting the supply. This can be crap from the new tank caught under the needle seat, or the tabs on the float need slight adjustment. You only need to bend very carefully and slightly just till it stops the flow.
Mack said:
Let me re-phrase that....it's possible they're not quite up to scratch with other Carby's Mikuni produces.
I haven't inspected these carby's with other VM series Mikuni's up close, only what you can see on websites.
I has occurred to me that when any established company transfers some of it's manufacturing to China it might suffer a slight reduction in quality due to the initial process of refining the tooling and the expertise in the labour. From what I can gather, companies will usually begin transfering their bottom range products, and tool up over time, to be able to eventually produce the lot in China. If that is what is financially beneficial, you can bet they'll eventually do it.
Other than that, most companies have their higher end products and their lower end anyway. If you were to design and manufacture a carby specifically for the small engine market in China, would you supply your most refined product? Sure they probably do share parts and similarities with other Mikuni's. But the thing is I can't find any model or exploded parts diagram on the net, that exactly matches the Mikunis in these bikes.
If we don't speculate a little we won't arrive at the truth.....but it never substitutes for proof.
Thanks guys for the support, I have spoken to the owner and he is willing to swap the bike around for another, ( hope the next ones better) but the fuel issue may be caused by a screw in the carbie that is not tightened at the factory for testing reasons and the fuel just runs out?? I asked why there were no instructions on putting the bike together and warning people of this but did'nt get much joy to that question. I was also told to buy an inline petcock from supercheap. The stripped starter gear will obviously be fixed when i swap bikes ( i hope) but one last nagging question has anyone out there got any time up on these and had a look at the fork sliders? it looks like they are painted not hard chromed? The snake oil sales guy recons it is some new coating but mmmm I'm obviously skeptical now. Other than that the bike looks the part and in should be ok, if what everyone is now saying about the Ducar. Oh and they will be changing all advertising to reflect the correct engine ( I think they knew before I told them). I will from time to time logon and let you know ( without holding back) exactly how this bike performs and lasts. Keep roosting
Most mikuni's are manufactured in China. Do you think after processing a run of carbs for one particular order they put the mills and lathes and borers out a little so the next run isn't as good? I think you'll find it is quite well known in the repair industry for all types of things, that the difference between the top and bottom model of a particular product is not the quality. The belief that the top model is actually better quality is a marketing ploy. This is especially true of mechanical instruments or machinery. The difference between models is usually no more than design. Still in the same quality though. Among the VM mikuni's available they would be cast from the same metal, bored on the same machines with the same ideal settings applied to that machine, the same machine making jets would be pumping out jets for the entire range, the same o rings from the same source would be used from top to bottom. Now if your talking about the design difference between a flat slide carby and one of these, well that would be different.Max99 said:
That carby has the quality and potential to supply for many years the perfect fuel mixture to any race engine or otherwise better than most. Its a Mikuni, thats why. You just gotta tune it.
Toerag racer
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Tony B Me and 5 of my mates have agb29s and 1 of those is the Detonater all Ducar engines and we have not had a prob. I had the same fuel over flow prob and it was a sticky needle and seat, a quick pull apart and clean did the trick. We have changed to some good oil,changed spark plug and lead, fitted a mud flap to cover shock, raised bars by 50mm and had seat built up and recovered total cost about $250. I'm about 108 kgs and thing has done a bit of work and she just keeps on goin. Hope you have better luck with the next one and feel the love me and my mates are getting outta these things! Cheers!
NIGHT RIDER
Well-Known Member
yeah hope the replacement bike is good. and just for the record, i have got an atomik bike as seen in pic below and that has a DUCAR engine and i have also been giving it heaps since christmas (which is when i got it) and it hasnt missed a beat. so hopefully the next should be good. fingers crossed. have fun with it.
crazzy #1
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the moral support guys, I took the lil bloke out to black Duck valley and he learned the gears etc ec , and at the end of the day he was on the junior mx track having friendly one on ones, with some other newbies. Bike went well and had no probs, I also went over to look at the mini moto track where the grown up boys thrash these things around, and I tell you I have renewed confidence in Chinese engineering because these guys thrashed the %&*$ outa these things all day and some guys would have to have been 120kg easy, one even looked like he was in danger of getting the thing permanently and irretrievably hammered between his enormous er um buns? but they kept on goin, so I'm confident that it should be ok..
Byrtus_imports
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yep all agb-29s from the apollo factory are ducar, they dont use Lifan at all. Very dodgy behavior on Yamoto's part, they would have definately known that the engine is not lifan. This sort of behavior stains the reputation of all sellers of chinese bikes. They should not be allowed to have this issue slide, i would be demanding some sort of partial refund regardless of they have given you a replacement bike.
Byrtus_imports said:
But unfortunatly most Chinese bike sellers bend the truth a little...
Byrtus, if I buy a AGB-27 from you off ebay, how much of a refund will you give me if:
1. I put it on a dyno and find it doesn't produce the 8.5Kw you claim,
2. I find It doesn't have a max speed of 100+Kph as you claim. (with the gearing on the AGB-27's you sell, the engine would need to be reved to around 13,600rpm to get to 100kph)
3. I find it doesn't have an aluminium swingarm as you claim. (your pics show a steel swingarm, same as all AGB-27's)
4. I find it has a linkage swingarm when you claim it has a Non-linkage Swingarm. (your pics show a linkage swingarm, same as all AGB-27's)
5. I find it doesn't have the strongest frame as you claim. (I have a broken AGB-27 here, they are very poorly designed and built (+ there's pics on this forum of other broken AGB-27's))
6. I find other bikes don't have painted steel cylinder heads as you claim.
Sorry to bag you out Byrtus, but it seems very hypocritical of you to complain about others staining the reputation of Chinese bike sellers when you "appear" to be just as bad.
(Sorry for taking your thread a little off track Tony)
