jailing motor?

[Dreadful]

...lmao.......

Yeah Mack hit my funny bone too

All i'd like to add at this point is I reckon anyone having problems hitting " falseys " with a lifan gearbox is obviously an imbecile and this is an indication of piss poor bike control not a flaw in the box.....

I have'nt hit 1 and I been ridin em for years .

 

[coolmodee01]

i'm the same with my jailing i dont get false neutrals either
but i see people winging about it heaps

and mack you still haven't proven corey wrong
and he isn't denying the quality of the lifan motor i am and thats only the 125 with the 1n234gear pattern so dude if his so wrong and it makes you laugh so much
why is he wrong

another question where do the gpx motors sit in the scheme of things
or even the daychina as i brought up earlier?

 

[themountain]

ok i will compare it to an 125lifan N 1 2 3 4 gear shiftthe case strengh, the bearings use, the shift drum (fork legs are weaker)
the g box have more slip and more likely to find fake N more offten
better balance crank, same oil pump, better intake and exuhast port nicer cam
still more jst cant think of them all i ask my dad tomoro for u
but not to put down the lifans they an grate motor just that the jaling is better motor but that y they sell for more.

sorry but mack was asking for a current model ...not one from the stoneage!!
where did you get the impression that the portshape on a Jialing/GPX is better then on a Bigvalve Lifan??..ok , its not compareble with an Daytonhead ,but as far as I look at my engines, the lifan don´t got only the advance of bigger valves,they even have a shape of the combustion chamber which is far better !
In case of the tranny...well older Lifan´s AND Jialings had their share of probs, the newer one´s now are far better!

You better ask your Dad again about this matter

 

[Mack]

You don't have to worry I wasn't referring to anything you posted when I had a dig earlier. I havn't bothered answering or proving anything cause it is a never ending battle to engage people who equate brand or expense with quality.
But for your benefit...I will tell what made me lmao!

The case strength? Ok what part of the cases is weaker in lifan? Jailing were notorious for cracking the top engine mount out although this is nulled a bit now due to cradle frames. The cases cracking from kicking saga happens in any engine if you increase compression, bore up, stroke and replace decompressor cam with aftermarket. KLX is fine example. Kick shafts too. Also guys are advancing the ignition with IRK too far not knowing what they are doing when in fact they would get better results retarding it. Lifan cases are sought by some big cc builders even when using a jailing crank for the bottom end. The only reason they use the jailing crank is because Akunar thailand has the cheapest and easiest option and only has stroker pins for the jailing crank. (smaller by the way than Lifan) the piston pin is still 13mm in jailing whereas Lifan has gone from 14mm now to 15mm as they go bigger. Stronger and better oiling and long term reliability from bigger pin, especially if boring up big. I blue print all my engines when I build them. I have special ground surface plates and mandrels made to check all my engines for trueness and square machining and boring. Lifan's accuracy here is second to none. They also improve their design every time they release a new model like oil cooling as standard. The new 150 is much improved again.

"the bearings use" c'mon...

the shift drum??? Jailing until the 4 up drums were by far the most notorious for missed shifting and also still are for clutch cush drive rubbers and gear teeth self destructing. Shift forks I don't know about cause I have not seen many problems in recent engines. Current Lifan have zero problems here as far as I am aware.

"better balance crank" yeah Lifan skimped on this most important thing, they get a 9 year old kid to do it with a pair of fish weiging scales even though they have the one of the biggest most refined engine plants in China....

"better intake and exuhast port nicer cam" well we all should know by now that there are thousands of jailing heads lying in the spares bin in peoples garages across the globe. The cam? Nicer? How? Polished better? I have doctored many cams including Lifan and many aftermarket Honda cams and can tell you the cams Lifan is using now are way better than jailing. They run a decompressor and can be easily swapped out for any honda cam, what more do you want?

Add to this very general list that Lifan have refined also their flywheels with the 140 and are now improving again with the 150.

The truth is, jialing was chosen early on by some 'name' brand China bike builders and snatched the 'branding' status. Lifan scooter motors were adapted early on by the rest as a cheap alternative. These days are well and truly gone. Really the quality of both these manufacturers is the same overall. Lifan however, have been steadily and quite quickly improving design and increasing power and torque with each successive model. This means anyone else who sits still will not end up with the better engines suited to our use. Look out for the new Lifan 150.

 

[coolmodee01]

enough said
i knew you wern't haveing a dig at me dude i give you more credit than that
but you wern't answering my question
thou now you have i can see your point
so dont buy a klx.......he he he
i've known about the jailing casing problem thats why i went with there cradle frame not the type r frame
and bearings well the bearings on my cam are much better than my mates lifan ones
but valve size is a big issue i am thinking of puting a lifan head on my jailing just so i can run a bigger cam
but seeing that i might go with a barrel as well any sugestions there???

later

p.s thanks for the info you just made a handy thread

 

[Mack]

Your best deal is a 57mm BBK with lifan 28/24 valve head. TB300/z40 cam. Standard jialing/GPX build.

Also your mate sounds like he has an early Lifan motor or Lifan copy! Some of the Australian importers had old model engines in some budget models. Also there have been plenty of scams with badging an engine from noname maker as Lifan. The Lifan reps have told me personally it was a huge problem for them.

BTW what makes your cam bearings better?

 

[coolmodee01]

ok
i found no name bearings in the lifan
and have nsk bearings i put in my jailing he he he
na the original bearings on my cam where nbk i think, so me being the bearing man i went on a manufacturer search and found through a few avenue's that nbk also make bearings for a japanese company (brand will remain unknown)
so what happens there is japan send there higher quality steal to china to be manufactured to the japanese company's specs
as you could imagine the jap company would be very weary of who they get to do this sort of stuff
they also pump alot of money into r&d for these company's
all this just to keep there iso standards so they can sell the part in most contry's in the world including aus
if you dont know how iso standards work look it up there's alot of reading ahead of you

now to simplify that answer for ya the nbk bearings are made a better grade of steel i am not certain but i would imagine the same brand of bearings would be right through the motor

or something like the above to prove it beyond a dout we would have to metallurgist to test grade and purity of the 2 bearings in question and well thats not about to happen
so this is more based on my years of experiance in the industry

 

[corey58]

hmm when i was compareing the BVH and ports it was on an 125 stock motor..

here an simple test get an jaling motor and lifan motor get the same gearing and wheel sizes for an fair test.

race them nxt to each other the jaling will always pull away from an lifan 125.

as for the BVH i think they are grate and i like them alot but on and non moded 125cc motor they arnt as good but start doin mods to the motor they are grate and one of the best mod to do.

 

[Mack]

ok
i found no name bearings in the lifan
and have nsk bearings i put in my jailing he he he
na the original bearings on my cam where nbk i think, so me being the bearing man i went on a manufacturer search and found through a few avenue's that nbk also make bearings for a japanese company (brand will remain unknown)
so what happens there is japan send there higher quality steal to china to be manufactured to the japanese company's specs
as you could imagine the jap company would be very weary of who they get to do this sort of stuff
they also pump alot of money into r&d for these company's
all this just to keep there iso standards so they can sell the part in most contry's in the world including aus
if you dont know how iso standards work look it up there's alot of reading ahead of you

now to simplify that answer for ya the nbk bearings are made a better grade of steel i am not certain but i would imagine the same brand of bearings would be right through the motor

or something like the above to prove it beyond a dout we would have to metallurgist to test grade and purity of the 2 bearings in question and well thats not about to happen
so this is more based on my years of experiance in the industry

See I can take notice of that 'cause you done your homework. But to complete the comparison all factors would have to be in. Main bearings (in case the cams are outsourced) checked as well. Also confirmation your mates is genuine Lifan and how old compared to your motor. I can check what Lifan is using currently also, have three stripped down on my bench ATM. Beyond that, there is the main factor of wether or not the bearings are actually better! Hard to determin without hardness depth testing equipment and tolerance checking. Then also if it even matters! I have not seen or heard of bearing failure as a cause for concern in any ching motor yet.

On the 125 comparo'
I presume you are talking about the early 54 x 54 Lifans with the crank mounted clutch, or maybe the 120's? Anyhow, what you also need to consider here is whether or not your impression of these motors performance is governed by seeing them perform in bikes which came with them or what. Reason being that many many of these engines were slapped in cheap bikes with a cheap arse way undersized china carb and a cheap arse restrictive exhaust. The cheapness of the importer determined the nastiness of the setup. So your comparison would have to be with them both carbed to their respective best with a pipe at least suited to each ones breathing ability. I have had those 'ol 54 x 54 engines honking correctly tuned. and I might add revving way past a jailings limit!

 

[coolmodee01]

granted
i've aclually got the 125 and the 140 start any gear crank in my hand
and the 140 motor has cjb on them and i know this brand is not to bad either
and yeah i have seen the lifan 125's go pretty good and this one did to till the crank clean sheared off for no reason at all there are no stress marks it just clean sheared off
bike was a pitpro le
i must admit that this is why i bought the vert over one of these things ha

 

[Mack]

It still is mute point though because those engines are long gone by the wayside for anyone looking to buy a new motor today. This was the original question also. If you really want to compare the two factories by todays standards and limit to 125cc. Then you do what you want with your jailing and I will start with a 138 Lifan. Drop on a 120 cylinder and bore to 53.5mm. Running 13-14 compression and with many well thought out mods including a 28/23 valve head worked a special way. 26mm pumper carb and custom exhaust. I will be very confident. I would even come challenge your 119.

But once again really this comparison is only a pissing contest between those who are interested in racing 125 restricted classes. The real deal here is if buying a new motor why the hell would you buy a 125 when you can now buy 140 or soon 150? Its like sticking to the 110's after all the 125's emerged, your not even in the race. Jialing is no longer in the race. Anyone sticking with their mates 140 is only cause like I mentioned before they are not carbed right or running big enough exhaust. There is no way you will stick with a stock 140 properly tuned.


edit- sorry my post was to come in before you!

 

[coolmodee01]

mack
i'm gunna eat my words here but that lifan crank has fjk japan bearings on it
which are no better but not as bad as originally thought
it still doesn't excuse the snapped crank
have a look

 

[Mack]

Ah see gotta be careful i nearly took you at your word!

Yeah, I never read too much into broken cranks. They have been snapping since the day they first swung a piston off one...its usually the stuff attached that causes the problem or modifications made. Sometimes they just go from being flogged day in day out. Some riders I have known also seem to just break shit in their engines all the time and others never do...

The point of this jailing Lifan comparison has been lost a little I think. The pissing contest between an old 125 Lifan and a jailing engine for those interested in 125 restricted racing is a non event for anyone looking to buy a new engine. Lifan have moved onwards and upwards. Staying with a125 now would be like sticking with the old 110's after the 125's emerged. They are no longer in the race. Jailing is no longer in the race. If you can stick with a lifan 140 on your stock jailing it is because it has the wrong carb and too restrictive a pipe on it. Properly tuned you wont go close. Its got stroke and cc's on you with a much bigger head, bumped compresion and bigger cam. Once the 150 is here what then? Its only competitor is the yx motor and it is showing some major reliability problems right now.

If Jialing emerged with a bigger bore engine and improvements made where the world has found weakness in the last two years, then we would have a comparison argument on our hands! Right now I am experimenting with 160's built from the 140 base to try and run a china motard against bucket racers. I need 18-20 reliable HP and a damn good handling...

I don't think it will be long before the cc limit for mini racing is set to 140 or 150 either...so forget your 120's and 125's, its moving very fast and the OS guys are going that way we will follow.

 

[ducar.r.spec]

this whole lifan jialing war thing is shitting me
monday or tuesday next week ill try to get a hold of a digi cam and strip both engines down
honestly the only thing i like about the jialing is the clutch (5 plate stock)

why we are on the subject
mack are the jialing 125 cranks longer then the lifan 138 cranks??

 

[Mack]

yeah I'm done with it, the stroke on jailing is 57mm, lifan monster and 138 is 55.5, Lifan 140 and 150 is 59mm.

 

[tubes380]

jailing 125cc engine has a 57mm stroke
lifan 138cc engine (127cc) 55.5mm stroke

 

[Cactus Jack]

oki found no name bearings in the lifan

....... a quick check of a stock Lifan 125 super motor head shows that it has NTN Japan bearings , the big bearing is NTN 5069 .

 

[Cactus Jack]

this whole lifan jialing war thing is shitting me . why we are on the subject

'cause some kid who can't spell or pronounce words properly challenged everyone with advice he got from his "DAD" .......

 

[themountain]

'cause some kid who can't spell or pronounce words properly challenged everyone with advice he got from his "DAD" .......

....lol ...same thinking here

 

[no_crf50_here]

1 x 140cc motor
run in motor + 40min at black duck =