need help fitting DHZ outer rotor kit

[tormentandglory]

My outer rotor kit just arrived in the letterbox today. Has anyone fit one of these before? It doesn't come with any instructions and I've never seen one before. It doesn't look that difficult but if anyone has some advice it would be helpful, thanks

 

[pickles09]

wats the go with an outer rotor kit??
r they better then an inner rotor kit?

 

[t.luisetto]

wats the go with an outer rotor kit??
r they better then an inner rotor kit?

yer whats the diffrence...?

 

[Cactus Jack]

It should bolt straight on (theoretically) ..... (I'd say you already know what I've written below but it might help others in some way) ...

1) After fitting it .... Before attempting to start the engine ..... remove the spark plug and ground it , attach an inductive pickup power timing light to the lead and kick it over to check where it's firing at in relationship to TTDC , then set the static timing to your own specs ..... I read on Thumpertalk where a lot of knuckleheads trashed their kickstart shafts and mechs from not following the above info ....

2) I'd assume that the pickup , keyway slot and timing marks on the outer rotor kit are all positioned to be close when fitted to a Lifan 150 engine BUT ... IF it's miles out on YOUR engine when you check it (due to the keyway on the crank possibly being in a different position to what it is on an LF150 crank) ....

Check where the "T" mark and pulser are positioned in relationship to the keyway slot in the outer rotor flywheel and compare them to your stock flywheel . IF the degrees aren't the same then you probably won't be able to rely on your TDC index mark on your engine case and will have to move it by the degrees that the outer rotors "T" mark is out by ....

Or to be more accurate ..... set your piston to TTDC on the power stroke , lock it there , and when you fit the outer rotor , remark your own "T" mark on it OR mark a new TDC mark on your engine case or the backing plate of the new ignition ...... taking note of where the pulser pickup is located)

You can buy advance curve checking , inductive pickup power timing lights which will show you exactly what degrees the ignition is firing at . You use them in conjunction with a tachometer to check the advance curve of the CDI box ......

On your engine I wouldn't risk using an analogue ignition ..... digital ignitions send impulses to a computer , then using pre programmed calculations , alter the spark timing to precisely match the rpms as they rise and lower ..... and even then to compensate for variances that no computer can sense ... you'd need a throttle position sensor , gear position sensor , and an engine knock sensor ...

Since the Lifan 150 ignitions have such a big CDI box it's possible that they may be a step above an analogue IRK ...... I haven't checked mine yet to know fo' sho' .....

 

[tormentandglory]

wats the go with an outer rotor kit??
r they better then an inner rotor kit?

I'm having trouble with my bike stalling all the time. Its a pain in the ass when you back off the throttle stopping at traffic lights then the engine dies. IRK is way to light. The outer rotor is a bit heavier so hopefully won't have the same stalling issues (but still much lighter than a normal flywheel).

As cactus pointed out, the ORK has a much fancier cdi box which may have some sort of advance curve programmed in. I'll check that when its running.

Outer rotor kits have a charge coil to, which will be nice. I've been charging my battery at home before going out for a ride.

And thanks for the pointers, cactus

 

[Cactus Jack]

BTW .... You'll know straight away if the Lifan CDI is digital or not because digital systems automatically adjust the timing to suit the pulse count .......

In other words ... you can rotate the backing plate and pickup wherever you want while the engine is running and the timing won't alter in the slightest fraction at all ...... the computer in the CDI box readjusts the firing to match the crank degrees to the rpm in a split micro second ...

I remember checking the timing of an '83 model YZ250 and a Holden 6 black motor ..... no matter which way I rotated the stator OR the distributor ..... the timing stayed perfectly fixed . At the time I didn't know how digital ignitions work . It had me baffled and I thought I was going nuts .....

 

[wogtaz ryder]

so to sum it up will it be as easy (exactly the same) as fitting a inner rotor kit? i like the idea of a lighter flywheel but i hate IRK's!

Cheers.

 

[Cactus Jack]

That's just it .... since chinese IRK's are analogue , they can be easily set wrong or can be faulty .....

 

[tormentandglory]

I fired up my engine with the outer rotor on it today. It does have an advance function. When the revs come up to about 4000 (I'm guessing) the ignition advance increases about 10deg. I marked out 10deg increments on the flywheel with a protractor and a file so I could see exactly what was happening. This ignition system is my new favourite thing

 

[t.luisetto]

for curiosity sake could we gat a photo of one??

 

[Cactus Jack]

I fired up my engine with the outer rotor on it today. It does have an advance function. When the revs come up to about 4000 (I'm guessing) the ignition advance increases about 10deg. I marked out 10deg increments on the flywheel with a protractor and a file so I could see exactly what was happening. This ignition system is my new favourite thing

Yes , you know the go ..... but 10 degrees isn't much if that's taken from the static advance .... Are you running 15 or 25 degrees at idle and it advances a further 10 degrees to 25 or 35 ???? Are you copping kick back on starting ? Kick back isn't so bad with a 49 mm stroke crank but it's greatly amplified by a 59 mm stroke .....

Maybe the POSH digital CDI's will plug straight into the ORK's wiring harness to give an even better advance curve .....

The advance curve greatly affects low speed pulling power , acceleration and overall performance .....

Most people who owned XR75's with the points system thought they were bad ..... but I checked out heaps of bikes and found that clowns had bent the mechanical advance mech spring tabs by jamming screwdrivers into the flywheel to hold it while they undid the crank nut to remove it ...... which allowed the points cam and timing to slop from low to high advance ...

That made the bikes a pig to start and they ran sluggish and gutless until they were revving high .... they wouldn't pull the head off a match and stalled a lot .....

When the tabs were straightened back out and the spring tension restored so that the points cam returned to the stop at idle ... the engines came back to life .... started easy , idled far better with a slow , steady , solid plonk ..... the bottom end grunt and pull thru the rev range returned in leaps and bounds ..... and the engines ran crisper and cleaner right thru the range ..... I actually increased the spring tension to slow down the stock rate of advance with even better results ......

My points model XR anhilates CDI models and still revs to super high revs without missing a beat .... because it has an infinitely variable mechanical advance curve that can only be matched by a full digital system with a programmable advance curve ......

I tried various CDI conversions over the years (Mototek etc ) and the word "GARBAGE" comes to mind ..... Incidentally , the CDI model XR's don't last anywhere near as long as the older points models did ... nor do they perform anywhere near as well .....

 

[tormentandglory]

I set it at about 12deg at idle, and it comes up to about 25deg when it revs up. Probably a bit conservative but my engine does have a lot of compression and I'm not sure how good the tune is yet.

 

[Cactus Jack]

So have you tested it out to see how it performs ??? Theoretically , you could look at the timing specs of the bike that your cams came out of .... Either way , you don't want to go upping the dynamic advance if it causes kick back at start up .....

Corey (or his dad) knows all about the advantages of fully programmable digital ignitions over analogue systems on horizontal engines .... Maybe they'll jump in and share some of their findings with us ?????

Well on PM they reckon the Tokyo mods ignition isn't worth the money .... BUT they are probably expecting more peak HP ...... The real reason why you run a digital system is to make the engine run better across the lower range , start easier without kick back etc .... in other words better reliability and ride ability .....

New digital ignition system - Planet Minis

Minibikepro.com - Tokyo Mods Stage 3 CRF/XR 50/70 Programable Ign.