Best frame for motarding?

[grnman]

yes but at the moment in the class that i race i read the rule booklet and it stated that you can have a 85cc china 2 stroke. what would a 85cc be equal to in 4 stroke cc's?

 

[Cactus Jack]

170 cc ... 85 cc every 2 strokes equals 170 cc every 4 strokes ... and notice they state (85 cc Chinese 2 stroke ?) ... LOL ...

 

[grnman]

Yes absolutely the key word is 'china'. i understand the 2 stroke / 4 stroke it fires twice as often thing. hence the 85cc times two. but what i was after was your in-depth knowledge comparing a horizontal 4 stroke to a vertical 2 stroke cc wise.

does a 85cc vert 2 stroke = a 160cc flat 4 stroke? things like that.

 

[grnman]

does a 85cc vert 2 stroke = a 160cc flat 4 stroke? things like that.

EDIT, i ment 180cc 4 stroke.

 

[Barnesd09]

Yes, finding a 2 stroke chinese engine is proving difficult.

But it looks like rules changes are about to happen since MA approval was granted yesterday, and the class falls under the road racing rules. Meaning that engines are open... however this is not confirmed and I think if the powers are smart they will add the china rule to the book.

As grnman is suggesting a jap, vertical 2 stroke or 150r will smoke a china horizontal, but at the same time add a massive cost to the machinery eliminating alot of people that have only just come back to motards after a yearly capacity changes.

 

[Cactus Jack]

does a 85cc vert 2 stroke = a 160cc flat 4 stroke? things like that.

EDIT, i ment 180cc 4 stroke.

To be fair you'd have to look at the peak HP output ...

2 stroke engines that have expansion chambers are technically supercharged so if they can pull away from the double capacity 4 strokes down a straight then they shouldn't be allowed to race in the 4 stroke class ... Whenever you see a guy on a bike that's a lot quicker than all the other competitors ... you smell a rat unless it obvious to all that he's simply a better rider who's blasting thru turns and hard sections faster than everyone else ...

Proper racing is when most competitors are on well matched bikes which all perform close to the same in a drag race or down the straights ... Rider skill /luck should then determine the final outcome ... Anything else is a joke ... a farce and doesn't get my respect ...

 

[grnman]

hey im just asking about things that are within the rules. our rule book states clearly that we can use 85cc vertical 2 strokes with expansion chambers. why not explore that? hence my questions on a forum for feedback.

 

[TyD]

hey im just asking about things that are within the rules. our rule book states clearly that we can use 85cc vertical 2 strokes with expansion chambers. why not explore that? hence my questions on a forum for feedback.

I remember hearing something that in Gladstone now they are letting 85cc jappers ride with 160cc china's.. Someone will probably be able to expand more on that...

 

[Barnesd09]

Yeah TyD, they are the guys that wrote the rules. And its it is from they that we are seeking confirmation, and if the rules allow people to ride jap bikes with china motards, then I think people will either disappear or there needs to be another class like the pocket bike guys separating the euro bikes (open class) from the chinas.
All the younger ones dont ride the 85 2 strokes over the 150's because they are slower, same as the 125's over the 250. there is a distinct advantage of being on a 2 stroke.
I really hope for the sake of the sport that jap bikes aren't in the same class as the china motards, as honestly,as if you want to race japanese or euro bikes, there is heaps of other classes and formulas that you can go race, just dont destroy a winning formula for people entering motor sport.

I've seen it happen with to many other sports, especially my main sport of sailing. A great idea and appears with minimal impact and cost but brings the class up with modern times, but the rule makers leave a lop hole and next thing you know, a boat has gone from 15k new to 45k+ in 3 years, and fleet numbers from 120 down to 20. where if things were done gradually and loop holes closed there would be a prosperous industry and class.

But there is one way to overcome all of this, if they release the supp regs with an addendum to the rules stating that engines and frames must be made in china, then poor people who raced out and bought a jap bike could also be stung. So I think the rule makers need to be very careful as it could end badly for everyone, just as the the last 3 years of capacity changes have pissed people off and now they are starting to come back.

But as I said, we will just have to wait a couple of weeks for clarification.

First round of the National's confirmed at Phillip Island on the 3rd & 4th March 2011. And being a sanctioned event, if you win you get your name in the history books, manual of motorsport and it is recognised by MA as a championship win which opens doors to things like VIS and government funding to continue your sport.

There will be more info to follow as it becomes available.

 

[TyD]

Yeah TyD, then I think people will either disappear or there needs to be another class like the pocket bike guys separating the euro bikes (open class) from the chinas.

Yeah, I think that will be the best thing to do... But I really don't see why you are putting so much thought into this... Motards as a whole need to grow before you start hacking away at rules and so on, personally think 160cc max for seniors and 140cc max for junior. Simple.

Once we start to get atleast 10 riders at every round of the aus. titles, then we should look at what classes should be run and so on.. It takes time and patents for the good things in life. Never know, if it picks up, I might even come out of retirement lmao.

 

[Mr Tarded Mo]

Yo yo Mr Tarded Mo....... Does anyone where you ride, ride Japanese 2 - Strokes like the KTM 85 and things. If so how do they fair up against the 4 bangers. are the frames better? are the motors better?

Hey hey hey!

Here 2 smokers are really rare. There is only one smoker wich can competite against our vertical chinese ones. Piaggio zip sp 1997. Only scooter made for race purpose. Critical stuff: 70cc 21hv,140 kmh. This really launch when opening after turn.

Here´s also one KTM and Metrakit. Juniors are just riding these for fun. They race with Nsf´s.

And here´s something to chine bike lovers to chew, 12" crf150r. I believe there is same class problems in every country. It would be great to have many classes and lots of machines on the line. There is just not enough riders.

From my side, 4 stroke beats smokers cos they have engine brake. It´s so much easier to race. And what comes to vertical chinese vs. horizontal japs. You can build the whole chinese engine with the price of crf150 head parts.

My next frame hopefully starts with letter B... strongly looks like it :listen:

 

[Mr Tarded Mo]

I lied about letter B on my new frame. It´s letter Y. Looks great! Littlebit heavy but very stiff. Air intake comes inside frame. YCF power!

 

[Mr Tarded Mo]

And rear suspension

 

[ringo]

One advantage of 65 and 85 bikes being included is to boost the motard fields from MX. Any junior racing MX classes can fit rims and tyres and race motard!!!