E85 ethanol fuel.

[rumble]

Has anyone tried running it?
what is the benefit?
whats required, larger jets size recommendations?

I don't ride the mini that much anymore so looking at something to keep me interested.
Also, someone made some kind of roller test stand like a dyno without the readout so you can run the bike in the shed?

 

[DHZ_XR8cing]

A mate of mine ran it in 2 400cc Yamaha Quads. They ran well with no problems.
2 days later he went to start them and no go.
We pulled the fuel system apart and everything plastic and rubber had perished. I dont use ethanol in anything.

 

[nickv1980]

dont touch it any new motor bikes/cars usually say if there compatible ...

its s***t stuff

 

[twisties]

Has anyone tried running it?
what is the benefit?
whats required, larger jets size recommendations?

I don't ride the mini that much anymore so looking at something to keep me interested.
Also, someone made some kind of roller test stand like a dyno without the readout so you can run the bike in the shed?

Not sure about the e85 but for a garage dyno I had ideas of using a 10inch bike wheel with a speedo thing off a push bike and hooking it all up to give you a rough idea of km/h. All you'd need to do would be set the bike wheel in a stand and then push your mini's rear tyre up against it to get it spinning. I hope that made sense..

 

[timeeh]

Also, someone made some kind of roller test stand like a dyno without the readout so you can run the bike in the shed?

Iv'e been thinking bout doing something similar, not to dyno or speed check but so i can do plug chops in the garage (without having to terrorise the hood, or go to mates farms) Anbody got any ideas? I am currently thinking i might get one of those bicycle stands like this Indoor Bike Cycling Trainer Stand | eBay
although i'm not to sure on how well it would hold up with a mini bike on it. Anybody tried it OR any other ideas?

 

[Barnesd09]

Iv'e been thinking bout doing something similar, not to dyno or speed check but so i can do plug chops in the garage (without having to terrorise the hood, or go to mates farms) Anbody got any ideas? I am currently thinking i might get one of those bicycle stands like this Indoor Bike Cycling Trainer Stand | eBay
although i'm not to sure on how well it would hold up with a mini bike on it. Anybody tried it OR any other ideas?

The Magnetic dynamo that makes the resistance wouldn't hold up. Its made for human leg power and a bike engine would sma**** apart and overheat it. But it might last a couple of runs.......

As For e85 Rumble, I had the same thought before heading down to to Phillip Island for the Nationals. It does have a certain advantage over 98 or 100. But I wouldn't use any e85 from the pump, find someone who sells race fuels and buy it by the barrel only. Gives you consistency between barrels as fuels are changed at the pump according to local weather. Plus the 2 producers of ethanol for fuel do it slightly differently and mix it with fuel differently, 1 is more pure than the other and will give better results under load and high rpm. But I'll leave that to you to work out and investigate.
But you will need to change fuel lines and keep on top of the seals in your carb and drain the fuel after each ride as ethanol is corrosive to alloys and rubbers. Expect to be changing rings and barrels alot more often too if you want to keep performance up. Oh and you may wish to upgrade your clutch to some kevlar plates so you can run a synthetic oil to help with the wear on parts.
As for jets you will need much bigger ones, I can't remember the percentages but its up there in the 15%+ range (I think, or maybe thats methanol..)

 

[timeeh]

Thats what i figured, I'll keep my eye out on all classifieds and see if i can pick up someones old one to burn out

 

[DHZ_XR8cing]

The Magnetic dynamo that makes the resistance wouldn't hold up. Its made for human leg power and a bike engine would sma**** apart and overheat it. But it might last a couple of runs.......

As For e85 Rumble, I had the same thought before heading down to to Phillip Island for the Nationals. It does have a certain advantage over 98 or 100. But I wouldn't use any e85 from the pump, find someone who sells race fuels and buy it by the barrel only. Gives you consistency between barrels as fuels are changed at the pump according to local weather. Plus the 2 producers of ethanol for fuel do it slightly differently and mix it with fuel differently, 1 is more pure than the other and will give better results under load and high rpm. But I'll leave that to you to work out and investigate.
But you will need to change fuel lines and keep on top of the seals in your carb and drain the fuel after each ride as ethanol is corrosive to alloys and rubbers. Expect to be changing rings and barrels alot more often too if you want to keep performance up. Oh and you may wish to upgrade your clutch to some kevlar plates so you can run a synthetic oil to help with the wear on parts.
As for jets you will need much bigger ones, I can't remember the percentages but its up there in the 15%+ range (I think, or maybe thats methanol..)

My local petrol station has 100 octane ethanol. I have not been game to try it incase it eats my bike to pieces but curious of what it would be like.
I think its methanol that has to run bigger jets. Not too sure how ethanol would be tuned any different to regular unleaded

 

[timeeh]

Think you'l find thats 100 octane mixed with ethanol, e85 is 85% ethanol and made as a race fuel. At least i think this is the case, feel free to prove me wrong. Also that 100 octane at your servo would be fine i think, i usually run the 98 in mine with no dramas.

 

[DHZ_XR8cing]

Think you'l find thats 100 octane mixed with ethanol, e85 is 85% ethanol and made as a race fuel. At least i think this is the case, feel free to prove me wrong. Also that 100 octane at your servo would be fine i think, i usually run the 98 in mine with no dramas.

I have not heard anything about it. I seen it on the pump the other day saying 100 octane and it contains ethanol.
Im not sure what percentage is ethanol

 

[Barnesd09]

Ethanol naturally has a much high octane rating than unleaded fuel. So when it is mixed they usually mix it with 91, 95 or 98 depending on the octane level wanted.
To get to 100 octane they add 10% ethanol to premium 98.
e85 has a much higher octane rating, but... has lower specific energy than unleaded fuel.
The higher ocatne rating allows you to run more dvance on the ignition and higher compression, making more power, and as it has a lower specific energy the amount of fuel mixed with air is needs to be higher, plus ethanol contains a slight amount of oxygen, boosting the oxygen content inthe cylinder. (Hence you can burn more fuel)
But all of this will be wasted if you don't tune your engine to expolit these properties over regular fuel, your engine will actually loose power.!

 

[Hillz]

Ethanol naturally has a much high octane rating than unleaded fuel. So when it is mixed they usually mix it with 91, 95 or 98 depending on the octane level wanted.
To get to 100 octane they add 10% ethanol to premium 98.
e85 has a much higher octane rating, but... has lower specific energy than unleaded fuel.
The higher ocatne rating allows you to run more dvance on the ignition, making more power, and as it has a lower specific energy the amount of fuel mixed with air is needs to be higher, plus ethanol contains a slight amount of oxygen, boosting the oxygen content inthe cylinder. (Hence you can burn more fuel)
But all of this will be wasted if you don't tune your engine to expolit these properties over regular fuel, your engine will actually loose power.!

:grinning-smiley-003

 

[sean01]

e85 is a weird fuel and im no expert on it but it doesnt make more power on its own.
your engine needs to specifically be tuned for it which means you can't just swap back to unleaded when ever you want..
the tune is in the carby too... you will need richen the hell out of the jets...

and while you can advance and engine more on it doesn't really mean your going to make more power just out of the advance curve....
but you can run a lot more compression which means heaps more power...

a lot of turbo guys are switching to e85 now and im pretty sure v8 supercars have been using it for a while now..
not sure if anyone knows much about efi systems on cars but as an example a turbo car running premium fuel with say a comp level of 8.1:1 20+psi boost would need around 600-800cc injectors.

now just by running e85 they can up there comp to about 9.1:1, run more advance to help rid of turbo lag keep the same boost levels but require nearly double the size injectors because of the way the e85 burns...

so for a mini bike its a complete waste of time... also the shelf life of e85 isn't that long and there are different grades of the fuel...not to mention you cant just buy it any where these days... pump e85 is rubbish and no where near the quality....

 

[Hillz]

moral of the storey if you want wank factor fuel on your mini.... just run avgas

 

[timeeh]

moral of the storey if you want wank factor fuel on your mini.... just run methanol

There i Fixt it Avgas aint bad either, but methanol.... can't go past the smell, reminds me of the old days watching sprint cars, love it.

 

[timeeh]

The above comment got me thinking.... Maybe you don't wanna run methanol
Alcohol Tip Sheet
I remember years ago running a couple of times in my old 80 2 smoker (next doors kids had remote control planes, and that was the fuel they used to run on) Deffinately improved the perfomance even without tuning, but man it used to clog up the exhaust with oil.....

 

[NEWY50N]

i used to run it in my crf 50 it burns quicker and produes more power
i had it in my 106 takie for 3 years u have to go 30% bigger main jet

 

[NEWY50N]

u gotta be care ful tho i had my bike dynod for it racing every time b4 i raced it i kno few guys that ran it in 88 limiteds too and il be putting my stocker on it too once i finished building it the guys that i kno and i have had no dramas