strange engine number on a so called lifan

[01nutracing]

My new MSO 140s turned up and after a bit of trouble getting it to run I've got it pretty well sorted. It has a strange engine number for a apparent lifan 140. The number is 1P62YMJ. Surely it cant have a 62mm bore so I'm guessing its maybe a YX. Am I right? I've searched here and google with no success. What motor did I end up with? It has 140cc on the barrel and the only thing black is the barrel, the rest is alloy. MSO assured me that they use lifan motors and not YX's but I'm not too worried I just want to know what I've got when I go to buy mods.

 

[headsmess]

well, i get worse with mine...advertised as a lifan...ip52fmi...

now. wrist/gudgeon pin is only 13mm, not 14mm. stud pattern is different. bore is different. piston is different...

im assuming its a loncin, only other brand that carries the ip52fmi number... oh, and its registered as a shineray...which it aint...

yours? who knows? mso has a reputation though, so...its a start?

 

[01nutracing]

Yeah the only thing I could find on google was something in french that mentioned both my engine number and Lifan 140, but it didnt translate too well. I'm hoping someone like Cactus may know something about it, if he doesnt not many people will. It does at least have the oil feed from the crank which I've read that lifans have and Yx's are from the head apparently. As I said I'm not real worried, just want to know what I've got.

 

[Cactus Jack]

Check for yourself ... Lifan 140's are 1P55FMJ ... Lifan 150's are 1P56FMJ ... The 2E10's were most likely the very first model of those engines made since the 140 shown has the 125 RH side centre case ... I sold a new 1P55FMJ 2E10 to my brother and kept the two second release 1P55FMJ's ... they have stronger mounts on the RH side centre case ...

Lifan Group

Lifan Group

I don't see any 1P56YMJ or 1P62YMJ Lifans anywhere ... Maybe they are the latest release from Lifan ? But I can't see why they'd change the engine #'s ?????

I'd say any engine with a different number is made up elsewhere ... maybe using some genuine Lifan parts ... but assembled somewhere cheaper than Lifan charges to cut down the cost for importers ... such as by the Zongshen assembly line ... You'd know by looking at the box they're delivered in ... it should have the red , black and blue Lifan brand printed on the carton and have a Lifan quality control inspection certificate placed in the fins on the cylinder ...

We bought what was supposed to be a Lifan 120 super motor with MOJO on the cases (Brand new) years ago (it had chromed mojo clutch and flywheel covers) ... It also had a weird engine number that started with ZF (ZF56FMI) ... I pulled the head off to check to see if it had a 56 mm bore but it was only 52.4 mm ... The head was like the head off the 125 Lifan non start in gear black motors only it was bare alloy and had cavernous ports with a bad casting lip and big diameter guide bosses ... The cylinder studs sprung outwards when the cylinder was removed and the case parting line also sprung out leaving a gap beside the case centre gasket ... Also the valves only touched around one side of the seat ... the engine was hiccing , popping and spitting when cold but it ran OK once warmed up ... it was bodgily built ... and had a 1D3UP tranny ... I cleaned the ports up , blended the valve seat inserts into the valve throats and back cut the valves , re seated , lapped and blue checked the valves and seats to ensure they were sealing all the way around ... then reassembled it ... The popping , hiccing and spitting was totally gone ... and the engine made stacks more torque ...

Lifan makes a 162FMJ but it's vertical 150 with a 62 mm bore x 49.5 mm stroke ... So the 55 / 56 / 62 OR whatever DOES stand for the bore size of a GENUINE Lifan engine ... Any engine with odd numbers must be fake ...

Lifan Group

 

[themountain]

woow...its getting better and better with this imports!!

 

[Cactus Jack]

Yes headsmess has a Loncin 120 ... I've got one too and it was sold to us new in a bike as a Lifan ... It's got a 1D3UP tranny , small valve head , clutch on the crank and an alloy cylinder that has vertical fins ... My brother has one too ... they are super reliable since his one has lasted intact for nearly 5 years now without regular oil changes and he had never adjusted the valves ... I checked them and the inlet valve was tight but the exhaust was still OK ... They still run like new ... As with all things ... it's abuse which destroys things ... Racing any chinese engine is abusing it ... they were NEVER designed for it no matter what BS anyone tries to palm off ... the gear ratios ALONE tell you they are daily commuters or trail plonkers ... and the horizontal cylinder tells you they won't like being thrashed at low speeds in low gears without cooking ... They originally had iron cylinders to allow them to handle the high heat they have to live with ... and just look at how long iron cylinder Honda engines can last for if treated properly ... Alloy cylinders wear the bores out waaayy quicker than iron cylinders because the bore distorts as it heats up and they ALSO go egg shaped as the engine revs higher ... I know all this first hand having run countless BBK's in XR's ... They are a vertical engine which is cooled better than a horizontal but when bore and sleeve kits with thinner sleeves than stock are fitted (just like what's in Chinese engines) they die an early death ... The stockers have a super thick cast in alloy sleeve which resists distortion similar to an all iron cylinder ... and they can be readily found with intact stock bores that are over 30 years old ...

Remember the blown up Takegawa modded engine with the the rod thru the cases that Bulldog showed pics of mountain ? ... He says that it was the crank but I read it as a shattered piston because the big end of the rod wasn't blued from excessive heat which it would be if lack of lubrication was the the cause ... I'm a drag racer and have seen it all ... Rod big ends CAN go out of round at high revs due to excessive piston weight and clamp onto the crank , then decide to rotate rather than reciprocate ... but the big end would be blue and the rod would have snapped in half in the centre of the beam ... The cylinder has gone egg shaped on that engine , caused the piston to shatter , then the rod has smacked a hole thru the crank case ... For the rod to be able to go thru the cases intact without snapping in half ... it must have been too stupidly short in the first place ... For a high rpm motor you want a tall cylinder with a longer than stock conrod to reduce rod angularity ... NOT run a dumbassed short rod and cylinder ... For a start the short rod is only good for moderate rpm and reduces the time and rotating degrees that the combustion acts on the crank ... and as you saw the end result of steep rod angularity ... a distorted cylinder from the excessive cylinder wall thrust which clamped onto the piston at high revs ... and KA - BANGA !!! ... LOL ... Drag racers , Nascar racers etc always increase the deck height , rod length and use a thicker and heavier than stock IRON block with super thick cylinder walls when they want their engine to live at sustained high rpm at high loads ... plus they use heavier than stock cranks to absorb the vibration , flexing and twisting ... Modifying and racing a 50 or 110 based commuter bike engine at high revs without addressing all those issues is doomed to failure ... and as long as people continue to do it ... the laughter will continue ... Like lambs to the slaughter ... "They know not what they do" ... LOL ... At least Honda got it right with their CRF150R engines ... knowing all of the above thru their F1 racing engines ... they went with a super short 42.7 mm stroke which minimises cylinder wall thrust , distortion , friction , reciprocating mass gain via intertia , and drives the crank thru a wider degree of turning moments ... Increasing the stroke length , boring the cylinder thinner , shortening the conrod , then increasing the peak rpm limit = lunacy ... and will keep the dollars flying out of your pocket no matter what materials the engine is built from ...

 

[headsmess]

once again, cactus, you have come through with the info use more spaces!!!i despise squinting

right. i leave my loncin alone(reassemble it? wahhhhh!!!!) except them cams, cause it has been a sweet lil beastie.... grr, gotta go get new valve springs...stripped it down and the inner spring has snapped...ah well. yes, i used hd springs. lucky i did pull it apart again. unless...what mods can i do? i see akunar has a 54mm piston on a 13mm gudgeon, high comp....it is being used for commuter purposes... maybe i will leave it alone..

then onto a real lifan for the mods....

though im still fairly impressed with the ducar i once had(dj54fmi/j?)...my mates had it for a year, when it finally stopped running...checked the valves, and they both needed a full turn before they had any clearance and its been thrashed for two years with one oil change... old oil came out like treacle. but now, starts first kick and idles like it never has before. sweeet

 

[themountain]

yeah...Jack knows his shit...good info as always!!! Yes , this belgian dood really made my day...posting up random internet knowledge and photos, to promote another Chink "racing" engine, what a joke!!

...though im still fairly impressed with the ducar i once had(dj54fmi/j?)...my mates had it for a year, when it finally stopped running...checked the valves, and they both needed a full turn before they had any clearance and its been thrashed for two years with one oil change... old oil came out like treacle. but now, starts first kick and idles like it never has before. sweeet

I have to admit that too...there was a bashing on ducar for quite some time , but I got a 4year old 52fmi here and it runs like a charm and got beaten up almost every weekend...very solid engine!!

 

[unit_mx]

Always a good read Cactus!

 

[s2rt24]

hey hopefully cactus can help me work out y my yx supposed race motor keeps burning out the inner rotor kits i keep gettin they sell me one for a 150 which my motor is. it just keeps killing them any ideas on what it might be. the bike is a dhz 150 limited edition bought it brand new and its been burning up the inner rotor ever since my first ride they hav always lasted diffrent amount of time though. my mates say that i rev it too much but isnt that what happens when they race them.... have you any idea y it does this????

 

[waddle090]

so i have 1p54fmi on supposed to be lifan, i dont see it on the list of horizontal motors on the lifan page, rip off?

 

[Cactus Jack]

NO ... the 1P54FMI is a 127 or "138" ... I've seen them ... maybe Lifan has deleted them after all the bad publicity on forums ... LOL ... They also make an all black non start in gear 125 that looks suspiciously like a Zongshen ...

 

[Cactus Jack]

s2rt24 ... I've actually got a DHZ150 SE (YX150 /IRK/DC Shoes graphics on white plastics / red frame ?) ... but haven't bothered running it yet ... I posted a while back where I saw the guy from Dirtmax having to replace a clapped out IRK on a brand new Dirtmax bike at the Hunter Jam ... He replaced the stock YX junk IRK that has a cast backing plate with a better one that had a billet alloy backing plate ... I wouldn't buy another IRK if yours burns out again ... instead buy a Lifan 150 ORK for $89 or $99 ... Even the later model YX engines which had a non adjustable ORK or a stock type flywheel had ignition problems ... the flywheel tabs were all over the place and caused the cases and bearings to fail due to detonation and kick back ... YX has since upgraded the right side crank case , bearing and transmission countershaft with a stronger needle bearing case half ...

I have no confidence in bothering to run my YX 150 engine until I swap out the stock junk oil slinger and replace the stock IRK with a Lifan ORK ... then it's still got the weak case and crap ball bearing counter shaft but the 150's apparently were OK as far as the bearing and case goes if left near stock ... those parts failed mainly on the YX160's ... But the stock IRK and slinger are known to fail ... as well as the clutch rubbers ... I'm taking the YX150 out and putting a Lifan 150 in the frame ...

 

[dirttau]

can u get a 140 lifan that has a one down 3 up gear box because thats what mine does

 

[Cactus Jack]

You see 'em advertised in the US with 1D3UP trannies so who knows ! ... As long as the engine number is 1P55FMJ then it's a Lifan ... A 1P56 with vertical finned alloy 125 type cylinder is a phony and so is one with an iron cylinder ... 1P56FMJ is the Lifan 150 which has an alloy cylinder with horizontal fins and the Daytona type clutch cover ...

When I bought my Lifan 125 around 4 years ago I was told by the seller (Motovert) that a 4 UP tranny was better ... more reliable ... they said they could sell me a 1D3UP engine but they wouldn't guarantee that the tranny wouldn't stuff up ...

 

[headsmess]

im sick of engine numbers that are meaningless!!!

i think ive already said ive worked out my "lifan IP52FMI" to be a "loncin" due to the size of its wrist pin.

well... why the hell does it have a cylinder thats 10mm longer? and therefore, cylinder studs that are 10mm longer than any of the five other engines ive just checked out? still a 55mm stroke(give or take a mil) so i got a long conrod so the cylinder is the same length as a 140. stud pattern of a 90/110 etc, has the large cam sprocket of a 140. oh, and M6 studs so i cant use the M8 ones from a 140... this thing is just getting better by the minute... and im running out of places to go find parts. after checking five engines....grrrrr!!!!!!!!!! @&#^#*& yamoto...

 

[Cactus Jack]

The Loncin 120 we've got is a 152FMI ... no "P" in the engine model # ...The engine # below the 152FMI starts with "DY" ... The cylinder is alloy with vertical fins and is 80 mm long ... the same as a Lifan 140 ... The fins on the top have been milled to clear the carb float bowl ... it has 8 mm cylinder studs ... You need the studs to be that thick when you go to a stroker crank and 120 cc because they stretch like elastic which causes the head gaskets to blow out constantly ... errr ... Lifan 140's have the smaller 28 toothed cam sprocket and a smaller 14 tooth crank sprocket ...

One way to tell what your engine is if it's stock and unmodified is to look on the inside of the cam end plate ... Lifan engines have "LF" in raised casting and Loncins have "LC" ... The head cover plate also has LG7 and a number starting with "LC" ... I haven't removed the cylinder off the engine but it could quite possibly have a 13 mm gudgeon pin ... it's got a crud dished piston ... I know fo' sho' that it runs a 32 tooth cam sprocket tho' ... and a "long" 74 mm cam with the anti kick back crap on it ... The transmission is 1D3UP non start in gear and the counter shaft is 17 mm , bare uncoated steel , and sticks out a fair way past the sprocket ...

Loncin 110's had an iron cylinder , they used the weak 6 mm cylinder studs and I'm sure they had a 13 mm gudgeon pin ... they had a flat top piston , an E-22 type head and a short 68 mm cam with no AKB mech on it ... 32 tooth cam sprocket and the tranny had a 4 down shift pattern (not rotary) ... Their tranny gears were also a lot weaker than the 120's gears ... Maybe you got rorted with a 110 ???????? Have you actually measured the stroke ?

Yeah you can't positively rely on the engine number to identify an engine's brand ... but you CAN use it to positively eliminate it as being a certain brand ... just like you can't identify a $100 note as being genuine by the number 100 printed on it ... LOL ...

 

[headsmess]

ok it has an 80mm cast iron cylinder. 6mm cylinder studs. 55(.5?as good as im measuring) stroke. 13mm wrist pin. 52.4(?)mm bore, with the flat top(even dished) piston. 1d3u gear pattern. electric start. 32 tooth cam sprocket. has to be the e22 head cus its got the same stud pattern as one. cam cover LG2-2 c120, and cylinder cover has LG10 90 cast in to them. no kickback fitted.

and it was stock and untouched new before i got my mitts onto it.


its looking like my best plan of attack now is to get the drill and tap out..... guess who snapped a stud? an extremely rare sort of stud....


mmmmm, monopoly money

 

[Cactus Jack]

Yeah it looks like a genuine Loncin alright ... A lot of the parts are adding up as genuine ... maybe the factory had a heap of 110 parts spare (ie cases and heads) so they decided to "cut" them into the electric start 120's or maybe people wanted electric start 120's for scooters so they figured they wouldn't be getting as abused as dirt engines are ... It's weird how they've used the 6 mm studs in 'em tho' ... Maybe they didn't need the anti kick back stuff with elec start ? ...

Loncin 110's and 120's use the Honda stud pattern so Honda heads fit ... such as the Takegawa Superhead ... Loncins are basically a modded SL70 Honda engine whereas Lifans are a modded Honda Nice 110 engine ... That's why the stud patterns are different ...

 

[headsmess]

well, im on my way to resurrection

the ct110 studs fit, with some drilling and tapping. so, come daybreak, i got 3 more studs to replace... and the the dowels are going to have a hissy fit, and the head gasket for the standard 8mm dowels... and, dammit, that lil bush for the oil gallery...hmmm...

at least ill be able to apply a decent amount of torque this time...