3 Phase Stator into Chinese Motor (Sachs Madass woes)

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morgsim

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Hi Tech Masters,

After searching for quite some time, I've finally picked up a "49cc" registered Sachs Madass. This in itself excites me somewhat.

Anyway, its got the 88cc BBR kit installed already, but I need a clutch and at least 125cc before I'm going to enjoy this bike.

I'm looking at the 125cc GPX, or a 140cc Lifan etc.

I'm no electrical retard, but I'm not a pro either. From what I have gathered, the Madass employs a 3 phase stator, which enables it to power all the lights etc. The GPX or Lifan is going to come equipped with a single phase stator. Obviously I am going to be kick start only, so can remove the battery etc, but rewiring to suit the single phase sounds painful (and problematic) and I don't mind spending some cash.

Fast Trails Performance - 3 Phase Stator magneto assembly for Kick Start Only engines

The item above is apparently the exact thing I need, however the company only ships to US/Canada...not to me in West Australia.

I've also found this;

OORacing - performance monkey bike, pit bike, madass, zoomer, dirt bike components - Generator SS3 phase kit 100W (Powered by CubeCart) which the company claims will work (and can ship). But nearly $200 seems kinda pricey (and would this actually fix my issue with ease?).

What other options do I have here guys - especially something I can buy from Australia that will just fit (I have a flywheel puller). Please help as I'm desperate to start this modification.

If I went down the rewire path, would the only issue be the lights working poorly? Would I use the new CDI, and keep the Sachs regulator?
 
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my67xr

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what is the engine model number on the original 50/88 ?
it's stamped into the caser below the front sprocket
 

my67xr

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to wire up the new engine wouldn't be too hard.
the battery sometimes powers the indicators/horn etc when the bike is not running.

to convert your wiring to suit the new engine,
you just need a new 4 pin reg/rect, so you run the 2x lighting/charge coil wires into the reg/rect, and 2x out to your battery.
also the gpx125 runs a digital CDI iirc , so you will need to use that too
a reg/rect like these should be ok, i found an adjustable one on ebay for my bike, that way you can up the voltage output if you have trouble charging the battery.

you'll need a reg/rect something like these
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/12V-Rect..._Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cc527402a&_uhb=1
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/12V-Rect..._Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cc59f6041&_uhb=1
 

morgsim

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Thanks for your help, I'm going kick start only so would really like to get rid of the battery.

From what I am reading the single phase Lifan/etc stator will not power all the lights correctly...?
 

my67xr

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all the stators are wound differently, so each one would suit a different requirement.
some will put out peak power at 3500rpm, others will put out 12v higher in the rpms.

the only thing is the regulator needs to be able to cope with it.
if the stator is putting out higher voltage at 4000 rpms and up, the regulator needs to be able to keep up
otherwise you'll have too many volts running through your lights and speedo etc, it could burn out bulbs etc

also when your lights are off, so with less load, the power will still be going into your regulator, so might be too high for your electronic speedo?
 

morgsim

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Wow you are the man.

So in your opinion my best bet is to keep the battery, get a new regulator and use the Chinese supplied CDI, then spend an hour or so doing some wiring?
 

my67xr

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it will make you wiring easier if you keep the battery.
do your indicators and horn work when the ignition is on, engine not running ?


is this the sort of thing you are looking at buying ?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-GPX-..._Parts_Accessories&hash=item4cfb7acd78&_uhb=1
it comes with the wiring loom and CDI, so all you need to do is to fit the motor and loom
mount and plumb up the oil cooling etc.

then swap your kill switch plug into the new loom.
fit your new 4 pin regulator, hook it up to the 2x yellows coming out the stator
then connect your battery red and black wires from your old reg/rect to your new reg/rec

if your headlight/tail lights don't come on with the engine stopped (but ignition on)
you'll need to find the headlight power wire on your loom (near the regulator/rect) and join it to one of the yellows before the new reg/rect.

then you are basically ready to go
 

morgsim

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...I don't even know what to say or how to thank you. You've saved me some major work!!!

Is that GPX a decent motor? I want plenty of power all the way to 80km or so and riding about 60-70km on flat a week (I can work on gearing later though).

I'm wanting as much power as I can get for under 5 hundo $ if possible...
 

my67xr

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yeah that GPX125 will pretty much keep up with a YX150/YX160 engine.
and you can upgrade it later too...
 

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coolmodee01

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man dunno how sachess get 415volts at 15amp out of a stator

3 phase hey (yes i understand how power phases work i just had high amp drawing electric motors on my mind when i read the heading the heading and decided to be a smart ass :D)

but as above is the go for one of them only option for more power and speed is to look for a zongshen 160ho motor but you'll be up for about $600 odd
 
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my67xr

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the Lifan will have a bit more power than your original 88,
they are a lot cheaper than the GPX125 but only make maybe 70% of the GPXs' power

and yeah, they run a 2 phase lighting/charging coil,
so basically you'll need a new 5 pin CDI, an adaptor loom, and new 4 pin Reg/Rect
so roughly it'll need the same amount of work.


i was doing some reading on the Sach Madass wiring last night too.
i saw that they use the key as the kill switch,
this will require a Bosch type Normally Closed (NC) relay to be wired up as well, so that funCtion will still work
 

morgsim

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OK so how about the 140cc Type R Lifan, is that a more powerful motor?

Just concerned the GPX won't have the torque I'm after for quick take offs at the lights...I remember I actually have a GPX125 in a Thumpstar back in NZ and it needs to scream to get real power...I'd rather a low revving Lifan if it gets similar power and more down low.

You guys are really helpful by the way, I know I am being a pain.

No ideas on the bolt in 3 phase stator for any of these motors? The one from OO no good?

I'm assuming I'd have these same 3 phase dramas with a Zongshen 160ho motor?
 

coolmodee01

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yeah the zongshen stator wont support a lighting coil

i'd personally be looking for a lifan 150 motor they have good low down power and torque and a long gear ratio unlike the yx version of it
they also run an outer rotor kit that has a constant power yu can run lighting off

i reckon ciniworx in melbourne might have a couple in stock still to maybe worth a look
 

my67xr

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you can modify the Zongshen 160HO/155HO stator to add a lighting/charge coil,
it's just a matter of swapping a Lifan 150 set of lighting/Charge coils onto it, i have just done it to mine.

yeah it looks like the one from 00 Racing will work on the Lifan 125/140, ask them before you buy it.
it runs the same CDI as the Madass too by the looks of it
it states must run battery, and allows you to run higher wattage globes (as long as the Madass has glass lenses in the headlights)
it has a lightweight outer rotor flywheel too, so a little more responsive, still wound't keep up with GPX125 though
 

morgsim

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you can modify the Zongshen 160HO/155HO stator to add a lighting/charge coil,
it's just a matter of swapping a Lifan 150 set of lighting/Charge coils onto it, i have just done it to mine.

yeah it looks like the one from 00 Racing will work on the Lifan 125/140, ask them before you buy it.
it runs the same CDI as the Madass too by the looks of it
it states must run battery, and allows you to run higher wattage globes (as long as the Madass has glass lenses in the headlights)
it has a lightweight outer rotor flywheel too, so a little more responsive, still wound't keep up with GPX125 though
Thank you yet again! If I am looking for more low down torque, rather than screaming rpm power...would you still go the GPX? I have been put onto 150cc Lifans and YX motors now...decisions decisions...
 

my67xr

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bigger cc's bigger torque, i would go for the Zongshen Z155HO,
if you ever want to upgrade you can take them out to 194cc, then add a better head etc

both of them are over $500 though ?
the Lifan 150 is around $540
the Zongshen 155HO/160HO is around $600
 

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my67xr

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that 150 engine has the 2 phase stator, so you'll need to use the OO Racing kit onto your new YX150

the rest of the wiring should be pretty easy to sort
 

morgsim

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that 150 engine has the 2 phase stator, so you'll need to use the OO Racing kit onto your new YX150

the rest of the wiring should be pretty easy to sort
I have been given advice that the current stator in the 50cc may swap over to the new 150 since both the starters are bottom mount? You'd say not?
 

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