3 Phase Stator into Chinese Motor (Sachs Madass woes)

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The bolt patterns between the arrows on #2 I have marked here? They are not the same, #2 is about 5mm wider. The flywheels are also much different sizes too.

I feel like an idiot but there is no way the center nut is coming off on the old motor...I've tried all sorts of methods tonight and it is really on there...I can't see an oil filter strap helping me either after trying what I have so far.

Considering the issues I'm having right now (and I just want to ride the bike), what are my options from here? I got a regulator, CDI etc with the YX150E and I'm much better at wiring than flywheel removal it seems. I don't give a crap about E-start at this point I just want to ride it. Thanks.
 
did the electric start yx150 come with a loom to plug the wiring from the stator into ?
does it have somewhere for the regulator/rectifier to plug into ?

the lighting coil has 2x yellow wires, i cant see it too clearly in the pic.
connect them to the regulator/rectifier, then run the red and black wires from the reg/rect to the battery
 
This is how it came. None of the loom colours match any other within itself and it has multiple 4 pin connectors...ugh.

I was hoping to splice this into the existing loom as easily as possible...I don't mind chopping plugs off and soldering in joiners instead to make my life easier down the track for E-start (keeping the madass wiring as stock as possible). I need to change out the regulator right, and also the CDI...?

Will try and get this tomorrow and give this flywheel swap 1 last try - or does the bolt patterns being different (as above) mean even that won't work now?
 
it sounds like the stators wont be a bolt on swap.

find somewhere suitable to mount your new regulator/rectifier and fit that.

the 4 pin plug for the regulator is in the centre of the photo, it has the 2x yellow wires and a red and green.
if you cut that outer wiring insulation/wrap back you can expose the wires a bit more
you need to make the wires long enough to connect to the 2x yellows coming from the stator wiring.
maybe cut the 2x black connectors off the new loom (where the stator wires connect to the main loom),
and solder them to the ends of the yellow wires from the reg/rect

then the red wire and green wire coming from the reg/rect can be connected to the battery
is the original Madass wiring fused here ?
and can you look at the wiring coming from the ignition switch to the reg/rect,
does the red wire from the reg/rect run through the ignition switch ?


and the CDI wiring,
does the original madass use a 4 pin cdi, a 5 pin, or 6 pin ?
 
OK - back with more awesome MSPaint'ed photos haha - ignore wiring length I'll add length/joiners later - I'm just making sure I am on the right track for now!

This wiring diagram seems identical to my current loom so far, so that's what I'm working off. It shows the ignition switch going to the reg/rect so I think I'm good there with your question above. Also shows the battery is fused right at the battery.

Then we have this masterpiece! #1 on the inserts is the original reg/rect wiring...so Green / Red / Black. The CDI with the sweet diagram beside it is the aftermarket one that was currently running on the bike (matches diagram above) and the colours show what wire went to what pin.

Whats the chance's I can plug the new CDI onto the existing connector (since it fits), then connect the green / red wires I have marked as to the battery into joiner #1 on my existing loom (red arrow - red onto red, green onto black).

This just leaves the blue/white and the green wire from stator....

The blue/white should plug into my existing blue/white loom wire seen in the bottom right insert?
The green could splice in after plug #1 onto the existing green wire (red arrow)?

I hope I'm on the right track here...should this start via kick if I do this, and will it be enough to at least power the brake light and indicators? Is the battery just going to eventually drain?

Do I keep the starter motor relay switch and wiring style as per the diagram, just to make it easier later?
 
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looks like fun,
sorry we've had visitors here for tea.

i have been comparing the 2x diagrams, yeah i think it will work using the madass 4 pin cdi
hook it all up, and give it a kick over, see if it fires
if it doesn't fire after a couple of kicks stop trying, and try it with the new CDI

the left over green from the stator wiring,
can you get a multimeter and set it to 200 Ohms,
put one lead from the meter to the green terminal, and the other lead from the meter to the stator coil mounting screw.
tell me if you get a reading on your meter.

starter motor wiring will just need the new red lead off the starter to be connected to where the old lead went on the madass starter solenoid.
 
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I just got back in after trying it, I went with my wiring as above using the YX150 CDI (did a rough job to test) - and gave it a kick. It started!!! Ran like absolute crap, but it started.

The Madass exhaust didn't seem to bolt up right, and fuel was pouring out of the carb - so I'm not surprised it ran so poorly.

At least that means the wiring is sorted for now right? What is the negative to doing it this way, is my battery going to slowly lose charge / lights not really work? I tried the e-start and it even fired it up!

Does it matter which yellow wire goes where to which, or does the reg/rect deal with that?

Guess I have to go and find out what to do for an exhaust now, I'll do up a nice loom etc tommorrow then deal with the running issue when I have an exhaust I think...

Thanks for your dedicated assistance! No doubt I'll need to ask more questions if it continues to run like crap...any chance I could have messed up the timing by turning the flywheel by hand?
 
the wiring loom that the Madass use is designed all wrong imo.
way to complicated, i would have made it more simple if i had designed it.

i'm pretty sure i have worked out how to connect the headlight too now.
i just need you to get it running first.
 
did you fit a new copper gasket to the exhaust in the recess in the head ?

you might want to check the valve clearances too while you are at it, that can cause it to run bad.
but i'd say it needs the flooding issue sorted first, might just be a bit of rubber in the needle and seat ?


if you start it again, test the voltage at the battery,
it should have about 12.8 volts dc when it is running or a bit higher

if it is lower than 12.6 volts, then try swapping the 2x yellow wires from the stator around, then test it again
 
Like this?

The old motor wasn't even running a copper gasket at all, I'll get one and hope that fixes the noise at least...is the YX150 a KLX style motor rather than CRF - would that mean I need a different exhaust entirely? I was hoping to keep the one on it for cost/noise factors.

I'll do the voltage testing tomorrow too - the flooding will be first priority obviously it is this carb I got.
 
OK so I found some copper washers and sorted exhaust for now. Cleaned out carb (which was filthy for brand new...) messed with the float a little and now fuel doesn't overflow.

Still runs terrible on either CDI. Starts perfectly and sounds great for 2 seconds. Then dies hard. No choke/revs mixture will keep it running.
 
i didn't realise you were running an oko on it,
you'll be having a lot of fun riding this on the street, lol


start the bike and raise the idle speed to around 1800 rpm, turn the idle speed screw in about 3/4 of a turn.
let it run for a couple off minutes and warm up.

now to adjust the carby-
turn the mixture screw out a 1/4 turn, this is leaning the mixture off a bit
you need to listen to the engine revs, you want the point where you get the highest/smoothest revs.
try turning it out another 1/4 turn let it settle for a minute, and try another 1/4 turn out.
when the revs start to drop, then you have gone too far.
turn it back 1/4 let it settle, then try screwing it back in 1/8 turn
once you think you are pretty close, turn the idle speed screw back out a bit to get a nice/normal idle speed.

now you can give it a try out, little ride.


the standard OKO jetting i have found is a little lean in the Pilot circuit, this controls the fuel flow at idle speed and up to 1/4 throttle.


if you have the bike warm, give it a blip rev, listen for any hesitation off idle.
if there is a little, then a bigger Pilot Jet will help it.
i usually go for a #38 Pilot jet in them.
 
you are running a lightly oiled Foam filter i hope ?

you can also check for any air leaks on the intake system
start the bike and let it run, now spray some degreaser/carby cleaner over all of the carby joints.
fuel bowl to carby base, carby to rubber adapter, adapter to manifold and manifold to head.
if the idle speed/sound changes when you spray a certain joint, then there is a vacuum leak there.
 
Thanks for advice - have had a busy day!

Almost got the bike idling well now, haven't had it out for a little ride yet but it's getting close!

Do you see this as an issue (lack of plastic spacer between manifold and head). The corner of the carb is touching the frame as is, so I can't fit a spacer in there and I believe this is supposed to reduce heat?

Is it just me or is this motor/carb combo angry as hell, in the small time I've had it running it just seems to rev up/sound like nothing I've owned before. I didn't mount the motor with rubber spacers since it was hard enough getting it to fit up inside the mounts as it was - the entire bike vibrates like an off centre washing machine even at idle lol.

I was riding a GPX125 in a Thumpstar all Dec/Jan...and this thing just seems to much more aggressive already!
 
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nah, the plastic spacer/insulator goes between the manifold and carby.
but when you use an OKO and adapter it isn't needed.


you can file the manifold bottom mounting holes out to slots, to make the carby sit towards the middle or away from the engine too
i had to do it to a couple of mine to clear the frame better.
i will post a pic of it tomorrow.


the OKO carbys are a Motorcross type carby, and are a bit touchy, like an on/off switch.
you will get used to it soon enough though.


make sure you check the valve clearances too,
they are usually a bit tight from the factory, and can cause a bit of compression loss, and funny idle etc

[video=youtube;QJciyJRJh8Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJciyJRJh8Q[/video]
 
here are a couple of pics of one of the slotted manifolds i did,
the one one the right is the first one i did, the left is just standard, note the slots need to be rounded to keep the ports lined up.
it didn't take long using a couple of round files.



 
Hey.

Thanks for all the info above! I really appreciate it especially the manifold pics, I will definitely be doing that to bring the angle from the frame out a little more.

I don't get much time during the week to work on it, but I've had it running last two nights for a short time. Can't get it to idle right for the life of me, it has a high fast idle when first started, then it slowly drops down until it stalls alongside a decent carb backfire. Mixture doesn't seem to help (is almost all the way in right now)...and I tried spraying some carb cleaner around to check for leaks but it sounds like a damn rotary with the idle all over the place so it's hard to tell anyway.

Hopefully in the weekend I can get stuck into it, and check the valve clearances etc. Might hook up the indicators etc tomorrow and take it for a spin around the block but I'm not hopeful for a smooth ride.

This is turning into quite the challenge for someone of my skill set, all my other pit bike motor swaps have been super-smooth compared with this!
 
you can probably get a manifold with the correct angle off ebay, but it is hard to judge them from their pics.

a manifold spinner might be something to think about too, they are only 8mm thick, and you can mount you manifold in a heap of different positions

DSC00755_Copy.jpg


have you listened for a hesitation when you blip the throttle ?
a #38 Pilot jet should fix that
do you have a bike shop there that keeps Keihin Jets ?
otherwise DHZ sells them too $5ea, plus post
OKO Carburetor Slow / Main Jets

try taping up the gap where the throttle cable goes into the top of the carby, use some insulation tape etc to try it.
i don't know why they don't come with the rubber seals anymore.
i have had a couple of OKO's that it helped by fitting the seal over the cable, on these i couldn't find the vacuum leak till i tried it.
 
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